Main Menu
Google Search
Google
Twitter News
Current GWH News
Global Warming Hoax News From Around the Web

World Climate Report

» Mortality Update

» Southwest Drought?

» The Great Russian Heat Wave of 2010 Part II

» The Great Russian Heat Wave of 2010

» Sea Level History Lesson

» Plant Productivity on the Rise in China (and Birds Love It!)

» Recent News from Antarctica

» Not Warming-Up to War?

» Solar Control on Tibet’s Climate

» Bird News

***
NewsBusters - Global Warming

» School Named After Al Gore and Rachel 'DDT' Carson Built on Toxic Soil

» Boston Globe Sees 'Global Warming Double Punch' Worsening Hurricane Earl in Massachusetts -- Whoops

» Inconvenient Truth: Discovery Gunman 'Awakened' By Gore's Film

» Miracle on West 57th: CBS Ties Lee to Gore and Quotes Assessment of Bush as ‘Intelligent’

» HuffPo Climate Hysterics: BP Spill, Cap & Trade 'Missed Opportunity' is 'Point of No Return'

» Emails Refute James Cameron's Reason for Cancelling Global Warming Debate

» Filmmaker James Cameron Backs Out of Global Warming Debate HE Organized

» Media Use Crazy Weather to Hype Global Warming, Despite Admissions Weather Isn't Climate

» Andrea Mitchell: I Thought Al Gore Settled the Global Warming Issue

» For Climate Change Piece, ABC's Dan Harris Skips Agenda of Global Warming Scientist

***

***

Climate Science: Roger Pielke Sr. Research Group

» August 2010 Global Temperature Report

» Comment On The Skeptical Scientist Weblog Regarding Their Post ” Pielke Sr And Scientific Equivocation: Don’t Beat Around The Bush, Roger”

» New Paper “Contribution Of Land Use Changes To Near-Surface Air Temperatures During Recent Summer Extreme Heat Events In The Phoenix Metropolitan Area” Et Al Grossman-Clarke Et Al 2010

» Further Information On My Interview For The Atmospheric Science Section Of The AGU Newsletter

» Misinformation on the Website “Skeptical Science – Getting Skeptical About Global Warming Skepticism”

» Interview with Roger A. Pielke Sr By Hans Von Storch In The Atmospheric Science Section Of The AGU Newsletter

» Summary Of Climate Science Issues

» Tropical Cyclone Activity As Of September 2 2010 From Ryan N. Maue

» New Paper “Effects Of Irrigation On Global Climate During The 20th Century” By Puma and Cook (2010)

» New Paper “African Dust Over The Northern Tropical Atlantic: 1955–2008″ By Amato T. Evan and Sujoy Mukhopadhyay (2010)

***


» Oxburgh Tricks the Committee: 45 Hours in Norwich

» Oxburgh at Sci Tech Committee Tomorrow

» ICOADS – Hawaii

» A First Look at ICOADS

» Tar and Z

» Back from Erice

» Kriging on a Geoid

» Replicating McShane and Wyner

» The First Difference Method

» Signal to Noise Ratio Estimates of Mann08 Temperature Proxy Data

***
Watts Up With That?

» Inconvenient Ice Study: Less ice in the Arctic Ocean 6000-7000 years ago

» Watch recent hurricanes cool the Atlantic

» Working 9,25 What a way to make a livin (at AGW)

» Arctic in the Holocene, narwhals, and all that

» Penn State’s greenhouse gas solution: cow beano

» Climate Craziness of the Week: Global scale nanosphere nuttiness

» Atlantic hurricane season halfway point

» The Unbroken Record of Broken Icons

» Climate Change = Erratic Rainfall= ‘big dam dilemma’

» UEA/CRU responds to Climategate “inquiries”

***
The Daily Caller - Global Warming News

» DOE giving $575 million in carbon capture grants

» UN: Climate funds shouldn’t divert poverty aid

» The untold story of Waxman-Markey: USCAP and the green industrial complex

» Greenpeace wants Facebook center off coal fuel

» Report: Climate science panel needs change at top

» Mongolian Cabinet holds meeting in Gobi desert

***
Global Warming News

» Unemployment Jumps to 9.6%, 54,000 More Jobs Lost

» Will Grading Cars Dispell or Enhance “MPG Illusion”?

» Greenhouse Protection Racket — An Update

» Obama’s EPA: School Marms R Us

» National Security Risks of Biofuel Mandates — Corrected*

» Is GOP Opposition to Cap-and-Trade Self-Contradictory?

» Al Gore: the Gift that Keeps on Giving

» BlueGreen Alliance Forgets their Aristophanes

» Primer on Extreme Weather Mortality

» Government Spends Billions Bailing Out Foreign Firms and Countries, and Replacing American Jobs With Foreign Green Jobs

***
Fox News - Climate Change Stories

» EXCLUSIVE: After a Year of Setbacks, U.N. Looks to Take Charge of World's Agenda

» Los Angeles School Built on Toxic Site Named After Al Gore

» The World Upside Down

» Sen. John McCain on 'FNS'

» Burger King to stop buying palm oil from Indonesian company accused of rainforest destruction

***
Michelle Malkin - Enviro-Nitwits

» Perfect: Los Angeles School Named After Al Gore Built on Toxic Soil

» Hostage situation at Discovery Channel; alleged gunman ID’ed as “Save the Planet” enviro-nut James Jay Lee; Update: Lee shot (dead?), in custody, all hostages safe

» Another ass-kicking: Judge rejects Obama drilling ban again

» California plastic bag ban goes down

» The fishermen’s flotilla: Showdown at Martha’s Vineyard

***
DailyTech Michael Asher`s blog

» Will the Real Antarctica Please Stand Up?

» Global Warming May Decrease Hurricanes, Research Suggests

» Japanese Report Disputes Human Cause for Global Warming

» Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

» A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the (Climate) Forum

» Climate Report Downgrades Ice Loss; Media Reports Opposite

» Princeton Physicist Calls Global Warming Science "Mistaken"

» Defying Predictions, Sea Level Rise Begins to Slow

» Electric Car Sales in Freefall; Industry Risks Collapse

» Glaciers in Norway Growing Again

***
C3 - Climate Cycles Change

» Another Renewable Energy Scam: This Time It's Lawyers Caught Doing Bio-Fuel Subsidy Fraud

» Despite Claims of "Warmest Summer," U.S. Temps Are Cooling At -8.6°F Per Century Rate As of August 31, 2010

» Extreme Climate Events Since 1970: Data Reveals That Most U.S. Hurricanes Less Severe

» Breaking - A Left-Liberal Exhibits A Rational Mental Capability: Local-Only Food Craze Is Environmentally Bad

» The Mafia Does "Green" Wind Power: You Know It's A Scam When It Attracts The Local 'Sopranos'

» Melting Predictions For Greenland & Antarctica Found To Be All Wet: Only Half What Climate Scientists Predicted

» Obama's Real Legacy? Ethanol - Burning Food To Make Fuel Is Not Only Immensely Stupid, It's Flat Out Immoral

» New Data Analysis Confirms Global Temperature Change Is Constantly Oscillating Between Cooling & Warming, Naturally

» Are Extreme Hot Weather Records Due To CO2 Emissions? Ooops, No New Hot Record Temps In Last 30+ Years

» The Real World Temperature Data: Why Global Warming Isn't Really "Global" Warming

» More Food Riots In Developing Countries As U.S./EU Politicos Keep Diverting Food For "Green" Fuel Policies

» Should Fanatical Environmental Literature Be Used In The U.S. Public School System?

» Does Human CO2 Cause Extreme Weather Events? Another Climate Scientist Says 'No' As Does The Data

» A Gore AGW-Jihadist Goes Violent: Will The IPCC, NASA & Democrats Still Push Propaganda That Incites Violence?

» Peer-Reviewed Study: 50% of European Warming Due To Cleaner Air; Climate Models Don't Work

***
CATO - Global Warming

» American Electric Power Co. v. Connecticut (Legal Briefs)

***
CanadaFreePress - Global Warming

» Russians Debunk Peak Oil Theory - as Bogus as Greenhouse Gas Scam

» Green Global Warming Editorial Gets it Wrong

» Climate Change and Precipitation – Another IPCC And Climate Science Failure

***
More Global Warming Hoax News Feeds

---
Since Exxon Hasn't Sent Us Our First Million Dollars Yet You're Welcome To Help Pay Our Bills Until They Do.










NASA - The Sun Now
Click to get your own widget
Solar Activity, the cause of all global warming.

The graph above shows the global temperature anomaly since 1979 (blue) and CO2 levels (fuchsia). There is no correlation between CO2 levels and temperatures. There are very strong historic correlations between solar activity and temperatures. Right now our sun is experiencing very mild solar activity, so expect cooler temperatures! The sun image shows current sun spot activity, it is a near real time NASA image (SOHO MDI Latest Image). Click here for an enlarged view from NASA.GOV.
Unable to save raw data in database.

O:9:\"MagpieRSS\":22:{s:6:\"parser\";i:0;s:12:\"current_item\";a:0:{}s:5:\"items\";a:10:{i:0;a:14:{s:5:\"title\";s:11:\"Forecasting\";s:4:\"link\";s:55:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/08/forecasting.html\";s:8:\"comments\";s:64:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/08/forecasting.html#comments\";s:7:\"pubdate\";s:31:\"Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:34:42 +0000\";s:2:\"dc\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";s:5:\"admin\";}s:8:\"category\";s:17:\"Warming Forecasts\";s:4:\"guid\";s:38:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=2032\";s:11:\"description\";s:359:\"One of the defenses often used by climate modelers against charges that climate is simple to complex to model accurately is that “they do it all the time in finance and economics.”  This comes today from Megan McArdle on economic forecasting: I find this pretty underwhelming, since private forecasters also unanimously think they can make [...]\";s:7:\"content\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";s:1292:\"

One of the defenses often used by climate modelers against charges that climate is simple to complex to model accurately is that “they do it all the time in finance and economics.”  This comes today from Megan McArdle on economic forecasting:

I find this pretty underwhelming, since private forecasters also unanimously think they can make forecasts, a belief which turns out to be not very well supported.  More than one analysis of these sorts of forecasts has found them not much better than random chance, and especially prone to miss major structural changes in the economy.   Just because toggling a given variable in their model means that you produce a given outcome, does not mean you can assume that these results will be replicated in the real world.  The poor history of forecasting definitionally means that these models are missing a lot of information, and poorly understood feedback effects.

Sounds familiar, huh?  I echoed these sentiments in a comparison of economic and climate forecasting here.

\";}s:3:\"wfw\";a:1:{s:10:\"commentrss\";s:60:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/08/forecasting.html/feed\";}s:5:\"slash\";a:1:{s:8:\"comments\";s:3:\"160\";}s:7:\"summary\";s:359:\"One of the defenses often used by climate modelers against charges that climate is simple to complex to model accurately is that “they do it all the time in finance and economics.”  This comes today from Megan McArdle on economic forecasting: I find this pretty underwhelming, since private forecasters also unanimously think they can make [...]\";s:12:\"atom_content\";s:1292:\"

One of the defenses often used by climate modelers against charges that climate is simple to complex to model accurately is that “they do it all the time in finance and economics.”  This comes today from Megan McArdle on economic forecasting:

I find this pretty underwhelming, since private forecasters also unanimously think they can make forecasts, a belief which turns out to be not very well supported.  More than one analysis of these sorts of forecasts has found them not much better than random chance, and especially prone to miss major structural changes in the economy.   Just because toggling a given variable in their model means that you produce a given outcome, does not mean you can assume that these results will be replicated in the real world.  The poor history of forecasting definitionally means that these models are missing a lot of information, and poorly understood feedback effects.

Sounds familiar, huh?  I echoed these sentiments in a comparison of economic and climate forecasting here.

\";s:14:\"date_timestamp\";i:1282577682;}i:1;a:14:{s:5:\"title\";s:44:\"Why It Is Good to Have Two Sides of A Debate\";s:4:\"link\";s:88:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/08/why-it-is-good-to-have-two-sides-of-a-debate.html\";s:8:\"comments\";s:97:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/08/why-it-is-good-to-have-two-sides-of-a-debate.html#comments\";s:7:\"pubdate\";s:31:\"Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:27:22 +0000\";s:2:\"dc\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";s:5:\"admin\";}s:8:\"category\";s:23:\"Temperature Measurement\";s:4:\"guid\";s:38:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=2029\";s:11:\"description\";s:313:\"With climate alarmists continuing to declare climate debate to be over and asking skeptics to just go away, we are reminded again why it is useful to have two sides in a debate.  Few people on any side of any question typically are skeptical of data that support their pet hypotheses.    So, in order to [...]\";s:7:\"content\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";s:2323:\"

With climate alarmists continuing to declare climate debate to be over and asking skeptics to just go away, we are reminded again why it is useful to have two sides in a debate.  Few people on any side of any question typically are skeptical of data that support their pet hypotheses.    So, in order to have a full range of skepticism and replication applied to all findings, it is helpful to have people passionately on both sides of a proposition.

I am reminded of this seeing how skeptics finally convinced the NOAA that one of its satellites had gone wonky, producing absurd data (e.g. Great Lakes temperatures in the 400-600F range).  Absolutely typically, the NOAA initially blamed skeptics for fabricating the data

NOAA’s Chuck Pistis went into whitewash mode on first hearing the story about the worst affected location, Egg Harbor, set by his instruments onto fast boil. On Tuesday morning Pistis loftily declared, “I looked in the archives and I find no image with that time stamp. Also we don’t typically post completely cloudy images at all, let alone with temperatures. This image appears to be manufactured for someone’s entertainment.”

Later he went on to own up to the problem, but not before implying at various times that the data is a) trustworthy  b) not trustworthy  c) placed online by hand with verification and d) posted online automatically with no human intervention.

This was the final NOAA position, which is absurd to me:

“NOTICE: Due to degradation of a satellite sensor used by this mapping product, some images have exhibited extreme high and low surface temperatures. “Please disregard these images as anomalies. Future images will not include data from the degraded satellite and images caused by the faulty satellite sensor will be/have been removed from the image archive.”

OK, so 600F readings will be thrown out, but how do we have any confidence the rest of the readings are OK.  Just because they may read in a reasonable range, e.g, 59F, the NOAA is just going to assume those readings are OK?

\";}s:3:\"wfw\";a:1:{s:10:\"commentrss\";s:93:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/08/why-it-is-good-to-have-two-sides-of-a-debate.html/feed\";}s:5:\"slash\";a:1:{s:8:\"comments\";s:2:\"20\";}s:7:\"summary\";s:313:\"With climate alarmists continuing to declare climate debate to be over and asking skeptics to just go away, we are reminded again why it is useful to have two sides in a debate.  Few people on any side of any question typically are skeptical of data that support their pet hypotheses.    So, in order to [...]\";s:12:\"atom_content\";s:2323:\"

With climate alarmists continuing to declare climate debate to be over and asking skeptics to just go away, we are reminded again why it is useful to have two sides in a debate.  Few people on any side of any question typically are skeptical of data that support their pet hypotheses.    So, in order to have a full range of skepticism and replication applied to all findings, it is helpful to have people passionately on both sides of a proposition.

I am reminded of this seeing how skeptics finally convinced the NOAA that one of its satellites had gone wonky, producing absurd data (e.g. Great Lakes temperatures in the 400-600F range).  Absolutely typically, the NOAA initially blamed skeptics for fabricating the data

NOAA’s Chuck Pistis went into whitewash mode on first hearing the story about the worst affected location, Egg Harbor, set by his instruments onto fast boil. On Tuesday morning Pistis loftily declared, “I looked in the archives and I find no image with that time stamp. Also we don’t typically post completely cloudy images at all, let alone with temperatures. This image appears to be manufactured for someone’s entertainment.”

Later he went on to own up to the problem, but not before implying at various times that the data is a) trustworthy  b) not trustworthy  c) placed online by hand with verification and d) posted online automatically with no human intervention.

This was the final NOAA position, which is absurd to me:

“NOTICE: Due to degradation of a satellite sensor used by this mapping product, some images have exhibited extreme high and low surface temperatures. “Please disregard these images as anomalies. Future images will not include data from the degraded satellite and images caused by the faulty satellite sensor will be/have been removed from the image archive.”

OK, so 600F readings will be thrown out, but how do we have any confidence the rest of the readings are OK.  Just because they may read in a reasonable range, e.g, 59F, the NOAA is just going to assume those readings are OK?

\";s:14:\"date_timestamp\";i:1281634042;}i:2;a:14:{s:5:\"title\";s:79:\"Just When I Thought I Had Seen the Worst Possible Peer-Reviewed Climate Work…\";s:4:\"link\";s:120:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/08/just-when-i-thought-i-had-seen-the-worst-possible-peer-reviewed-climate-work.html\";s:8:\"comments\";s:129:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/08/just-when-i-thought-i-had-seen-the-worst-possible-peer-reviewed-climate-work.html#comments\";s:7:\"pubdate\";s:31:\"Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:09:17 +0000\";s:2:\"dc\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";s:5:\"admin\";}s:8:\"category\";s:23:\"Climate Science Process\";s:4:\"guid\";s:38:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=2026\";s:11:\"description\";s:295:\"This is really some crazy-bad science in a new study by Welch et al on Asian rice yields purporting to show that they will be reduced by warmer weather.  This is an odd result on its face, given that rice yields have been increasing as the world has warmed over the last 50 years. Now, it [...]\";s:7:\"content\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";s:3126:\"

This is really some crazy-bad science in a new study by Welch et al on Asian rice yields purporting to show that they will be reduced by warmer weather.  This is an odd result on its face, given that rice yields have been increasing as the world has warmed over the last 50 years.

Now, it is possible that temperature-related drops in yields have been offset by even larger improvements in other areas that have increased yields, but one’s suspicion-meter is certainly triggered by the finding, especially since the press release on the study says that yields have already been cut 10-20% in some areas, flying in the face of broader yield data.

Willis Eschenbach dove into it, and found this amazing approach.  How this passed peer-review muster is just further evidence as to how asymmetrical peer review is in climate (ie if you have the “right” findings, they will pass all kinds of slop)

First, it covers a very short time span. The longest farm yield datasets used are only six years long (1994-99). Almost a fifth of the datasets are three years or less, and the Chinese data (6% of the total data) only cover two years (1998-1999)….

But whichever dataset they used, they are comparing a two year series of yields against a twenty-six year trend. I’m sorry, but I don’t care what the results of that comparison might be. There is no way to compare a two-year dataset with anything but the temperature records from that area for those two years. This is especially true given the known problems with the ground-station data. And it is doubly true when one of the two years (1998) is a year with a large El Niño.

In fact, he goes on to point out that simultaneous to the two-year trend in China showing yields falling  (I still can’t get over extrapolating from a 2 year farm yield trend) temperatures in China did very different things than their long-term averages might predict

For example, they give the trend for maximum temps in the winter (DecJanFeb) for the particular location in China (29.5N, 119.47E) as being 0.06°C per year, and the trend for spring (MarAprMay) as being 0.05°C per year (I get 0.05°/yr and 0.04°C/yr respectively, fairly close).

But from 1998 to 1999, the actual DJF change was +2.0°C, and the MAM change was minus 1.0°C (CRU TS Max Temperature dataset). As a result, they are comparing the Chinese results to a theoretical trend which has absolutely no relationship to what actually occurred on the ground.

Further, though Eschenbach only mentions it in passing, there likely is another large problem with the data.  The researchers do not mention what temperature station they are using data from, but if past global warming study methodology is any guide, the station could be hundreds of miles away from the farms studied.

\";}s:3:\"wfw\";a:1:{s:10:\"commentrss\";s:125:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/08/just-when-i-thought-i-had-seen-the-worst-possible-peer-reviewed-climate-work.html/feed\";}s:5:\"slash\";a:1:{s:8:\"comments\";s:1:\"3\";}s:7:\"summary\";s:295:\"This is really some crazy-bad science in a new study by Welch et al on Asian rice yields purporting to show that they will be reduced by warmer weather.  This is an odd result on its face, given that rice yields have been increasing as the world has warmed over the last 50 years. Now, it [...]\";s:12:\"atom_content\";s:3126:\"

This is really some crazy-bad science in a new study by Welch et al on Asian rice yields purporting to show that they will be reduced by warmer weather.  This is an odd result on its face, given that rice yields have been increasing as the world has warmed over the last 50 years.

Now, it is possible that temperature-related drops in yields have been offset by even larger improvements in other areas that have increased yields, but one’s suspicion-meter is certainly triggered by the finding, especially since the press release on the study says that yields have already been cut 10-20% in some areas, flying in the face of broader yield data.

Willis Eschenbach dove into it, and found this amazing approach.  How this passed peer-review muster is just further evidence as to how asymmetrical peer review is in climate (ie if you have the “right” findings, they will pass all kinds of slop)

First, it covers a very short time span. The longest farm yield datasets used are only six years long (1994-99). Almost a fifth of the datasets are three years or less, and the Chinese data (6% of the total data) only cover two years (1998-1999)….

But whichever dataset they used, they are comparing a two year series of yields against a twenty-six year trend. I’m sorry, but I don’t care what the results of that comparison might be. There is no way to compare a two-year dataset with anything but the temperature records from that area for those two years. This is especially true given the known problems with the ground-station data. And it is doubly true when one of the two years (1998) is a year with a large El Niño.

In fact, he goes on to point out that simultaneous to the two-year trend in China showing yields falling  (I still can’t get over extrapolating from a 2 year farm yield trend) temperatures in China did very different things than their long-term averages might predict

For example, they give the trend for maximum temps in the winter (DecJanFeb) for the particular location in China (29.5N, 119.47E) as being 0.06°C per year, and the trend for spring (MarAprMay) as being 0.05°C per year (I get 0.05°/yr and 0.04°C/yr respectively, fairly close).

But from 1998 to 1999, the actual DJF change was +2.0°C, and the MAM change was minus 1.0°C (CRU TS Max Temperature dataset). As a result, they are comparing the Chinese results to a theoretical trend which has absolutely no relationship to what actually occurred on the ground.

Further, though Eschenbach only mentions it in passing, there likely is another large problem with the data.  The researchers do not mention what temperature station they are using data from, but if past global warming study methodology is any guide, the station could be hundreds of miles away from the farms studied.

\";s:14:\"date_timestamp\";i:1281632957;}i:3;a:14:{s:5:\"title\";s:36:\"Computers are Causing Global Warming\";s:4:\"link\";s:80:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/08/computers-are-causing-global-warming.html\";s:8:\"comments\";s:89:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/08/computers-are-causing-global-warming.html#comments\";s:7:\"pubdate\";s:31:\"Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:55:35 +0000\";s:2:\"dc\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";s:5:\"admin\";}s:8:\"category\";s:23:\"Temperature Measurement\";s:4:\"guid\";s:38:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=2023\";s:11:\"description\";s:316:\"At least, that is, in Nepal.  Willis Eschenbach has an interesting post looking into the claim that Nepal has seen one of the highest warming rates in the world (thus threatening Himalayan glaciers, etc etc).  It turns out there is one (1) GISS station in Nepal, and oddly enough the raw data shows a cooling [...]\";s:7:\"content\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";s:2187:\"

At least, that is, in Nepal.  Willis Eschenbach has an interesting post looking into the claim that Nepal has seen one of the highest warming rates in the world (thus threatening Himalayan glaciers, etc etc).  It turns out there is one (1) GISS station in Nepal, and oddly enough the raw data shows a cooling trend.  Only the intervention of NASA computers heroically transforms a cooling trend into the strong warming trend we all know must really be there because Al Gore says its there and he got a Nobel Prize, didn’t he?

GISS has made a straight-line adjustment of 1.1°C in twenty years, or 5.5°C per century. They have changed a cooling trend to a strong warming trend … I’m sorry, but I see absolutely no scientific basis for that massive adjustment. I don’t care if it was done by a human using their best judgement, done by a computer algorithm utilizing comparison temperatures in India and China, or done by monkeys with typewriters. I don’t buy that adjustment, it is without scientific foundation or credible physical explanation.

At best that is shoddy quality control of an off-the-rails computer algorithm. At worst, the aforesaid monkeys were having a really bad hair day. Either way I say adjusting the Kathmandu temperature record in that manner has no scientific underpinnings at all. We have one stinking record for the whole country of Nepal, which shows cooling. GISS homogenizes the data and claims it wasn’t really cooling at all, it really was warming, and warming at four degrees per century at that

\"\" In updates to the post, Eschenbach and his readers track down what is likely driving this bizarre adjustment in the GISS methodology.

\";}s:3:\"wfw\";a:1:{s:10:\"commentrss\";s:85:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/08/computers-are-causing-global-warming.html/feed\";}s:5:\"slash\";a:1:{s:8:\"comments\";s:1:\"1\";}s:7:\"summary\";s:316:\"At least, that is, in Nepal.  Willis Eschenbach has an interesting post looking into the claim that Nepal has seen one of the highest warming rates in the world (thus threatening Himalayan glaciers, etc etc).  It turns out there is one (1) GISS station in Nepal, and oddly enough the raw data shows a cooling [...]\";s:12:\"atom_content\";s:2187:\"

At least, that is, in Nepal.  Willis Eschenbach has an interesting post looking into the claim that Nepal has seen one of the highest warming rates in the world (thus threatening Himalayan glaciers, etc etc).  It turns out there is one (1) GISS station in Nepal, and oddly enough the raw data shows a cooling trend.  Only the intervention of NASA computers heroically transforms a cooling trend into the strong warming trend we all know must really be there because Al Gore says its there and he got a Nobel Prize, didn’t he?

GISS has made a straight-line adjustment of 1.1°C in twenty years, or 5.5°C per century. They have changed a cooling trend to a strong warming trend … I’m sorry, but I see absolutely no scientific basis for that massive adjustment. I don’t care if it was done by a human using their best judgement, done by a computer algorithm utilizing comparison temperatures in India and China, or done by monkeys with typewriters. I don’t buy that adjustment, it is without scientific foundation or credible physical explanation.

At best that is shoddy quality control of an off-the-rails computer algorithm. At worst, the aforesaid monkeys were having a really bad hair day. Either way I say adjusting the Kathmandu temperature record in that manner has no scientific underpinnings at all. We have one stinking record for the whole country of Nepal, which shows cooling. GISS homogenizes the data and claims it wasn’t really cooling at all, it really was warming, and warming at four degrees per century at that

\"\" In updates to the post, Eschenbach and his readers track down what is likely driving this bizarre adjustment in the GISS methodology.

\";s:14:\"date_timestamp\";i:1281632135;}i:4;a:14:{s:5:\"title\";s:21:\"Garbage In, Money Out\";s:4:\"link\";s:64:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/garbage-in-money-out.html\";s:8:\"comments\";s:73:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/garbage-in-money-out.html#comments\";s:7:\"pubdate\";s:31:\"Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:44:55 +0000\";s:2:\"dc\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";s:5:\"admin\";}s:8:\"category\";s:17:\"Warming Forecasts\";s:4:\"guid\";s:38:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=2019\";s:11:\"description\";s:318:\" In my Forbes column last week, I discuss the incredible similarity between the computer models that are used to justify the Obama stimulus and the climate models that form the basis for the proposition that manmade CO2 is causing most of the world’s warming. The climate modeling approach is so similar to [...]\";s:7:\"content\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";s:4102:\"

In my Forbes column last week, I discuss the incredible similarity between the computer models that are used to justify the Obama stimulus and the climate models that form the basis for the proposition that manmade CO2 is causing most of the world’s warming.

The climate modeling approach is so similar to that used by the CEA to score the stimulus that there is even a climate equivalent to the multiplier found in macro-economic models. In climate models, small amounts of warming from man-made CO2 are multiplied many-fold to catastrophic levels by hypothetical positive feedbacks, in the same way that the first-order effects of government spending are multiplied in Keynesian economic models. In both cases, while these multipliers are the single most important drivers of the models’ results, they also tend to be the most controversial assumptions. In an odd parallel, you can find both stimulus and climate debates arguing whether their multiplier is above or below one.

How similar does this sound to climate science:

If macroeconometrics were a viable paradigm, we would have seen major efforts to try to bring this sort of model up to date from its 1975 time warp. However, for reasons I have documented, the profession has decided that this macroeconometric project was a blind alley. Nobody bothered to bring these models up to date, because that would be like trying to bring astrology up to date.

This, from Arnold Kling about macroeconomic models could have been written just as well to describe the process for running climate models

Thirty-five years ago, I was Blinder’s research assistant, doing these sorts of simulations on the Fed-MIT-Penn model for the Congressional Budget Office. I think they are still done the same way. See lecture 13. Here are some of the things that Blinder had to tell his new research assistant to do.1. Make sure that there were channels in the model for credit market conditions to affect consumption and investment.

2. Correct the model’s past forecast errors, so that it would track the actual behavior of the economy over the past two years exactly. With the appropriate “add factors” or correction factors, the model then produces a “baseline scenario” that matches history and then projects out to the future. For the future, a judgment call has to be made as to how rapidly the add factors should decay. That is mostly a matter of aesthetics.

3. Simulate the model without the fiscal stimulus. This will result in the model’s standard multiplier analysis.

4. Make up an alternative path for what you think would have happened in credit markets without TARP and other extraordinary measures. For example, you might assume that mortgage interest rates would have been one percentage point higher than they actually were.

5. Simulate the model with this alternative scenario for credit market conditions.

6. (4) and (5) together create a fictional scenario of how the economy would have performed had the government not taken steps to fight the crisis. According to the model, this fictional scenario would have been horrid, with unemployment around 15 percent.

In the case of climate, the equivalent fictional scenario would be the world without manmade CO2, but the process of tweaking input variables and assuming one’s conclusions is the same.

\";}s:3:\"wfw\";a:1:{s:10:\"commentrss\";s:69:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/garbage-in-money-out.html/feed\";}s:5:\"slash\";a:1:{s:8:\"comments\";s:2:\"56\";}s:7:\"summary\";s:318:\" In my Forbes column last week, I discuss the incredible similarity between the computer models that are used to justify the Obama stimulus and the climate models that form the basis for the proposition that manmade CO2 is causing most of the world’s warming. The climate modeling approach is so similar to [...]\";s:12:\"atom_content\";s:4102:\"

In my Forbes column last week, I discuss the incredible similarity between the computer models that are used to justify the Obama stimulus and the climate models that form the basis for the proposition that manmade CO2 is causing most of the world’s warming.

The climate modeling approach is so similar to that used by the CEA to score the stimulus that there is even a climate equivalent to the multiplier found in macro-economic models. In climate models, small amounts of warming from man-made CO2 are multiplied many-fold to catastrophic levels by hypothetical positive feedbacks, in the same way that the first-order effects of government spending are multiplied in Keynesian economic models. In both cases, while these multipliers are the single most important drivers of the models’ results, they also tend to be the most controversial assumptions. In an odd parallel, you can find both stimulus and climate debates arguing whether their multiplier is above or below one.

How similar does this sound to climate science:

If macroeconometrics were a viable paradigm, we would have seen major efforts to try to bring this sort of model up to date from its 1975 time warp. However, for reasons I have documented, the profession has decided that this macroeconometric project was a blind alley. Nobody bothered to bring these models up to date, because that would be like trying to bring astrology up to date.

This, from Arnold Kling about macroeconomic models could have been written just as well to describe the process for running climate models

Thirty-five years ago, I was Blinder’s research assistant, doing these sorts of simulations on the Fed-MIT-Penn model for the Congressional Budget Office. I think they are still done the same way. See lecture 13. Here are some of the things that Blinder had to tell his new research assistant to do.1. Make sure that there were channels in the model for credit market conditions to affect consumption and investment.

2. Correct the model’s past forecast errors, so that it would track the actual behavior of the economy over the past two years exactly. With the appropriate “add factors” or correction factors, the model then produces a “baseline scenario” that matches history and then projects out to the future. For the future, a judgment call has to be made as to how rapidly the add factors should decay. That is mostly a matter of aesthetics.

3. Simulate the model without the fiscal stimulus. This will result in the model’s standard multiplier analysis.

4. Make up an alternative path for what you think would have happened in credit markets without TARP and other extraordinary measures. For example, you might assume that mortgage interest rates would have been one percentage point higher than they actually were.

5. Simulate the model with this alternative scenario for credit market conditions.

6. (4) and (5) together create a fictional scenario of how the economy would have performed had the government not taken steps to fight the crisis. According to the model, this fictional scenario would have been horrid, with unemployment around 15 percent.

In the case of climate, the equivalent fictional scenario would be the world without manmade CO2, but the process of tweaking input variables and assuming one’s conclusions is the same.

\";s:14:\"date_timestamp\";i:1280425495;}i:5;a:14:{s:5:\"title\";s:57:\"You Know it Has to Be A Skeptic Writing When You See This\";s:4:\"link\";s:101:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/you-know-it-has-to-be-a-skeptic-writing-when-you-see-this.html\";s:8:\"comments\";s:110:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/you-know-it-has-to-be-a-skeptic-writing-when-you-see-this.html#comments\";s:7:\"pubdate\";s:31:\"Wed, 21 Jul 2010 04:50:54 +0000\";s:2:\"dc\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";s:5:\"admin\";}s:8:\"category\";s:23:\"Climate Science Process\";s:4:\"guid\";s:38:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=2014\";s:11:\"description\";s:343:\"I have followed Roy Spencer’s work for a while on trying to measure climate feedback effects from satellite data.  In general, I give him Kudos for actually working on what is really THE critical problem that separates climate catastrophe from climate rounding error.  It is good someone is working on this, rather than, say, how [...]\";s:7:\"content\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";s:2126:\"

I have followed Roy Spencer’s work for a while on trying to measure climate feedback effects from satellite data.  In general, I give him Kudos for actually working on what is really THE critical problem that separates climate catastrophe from climate rounding error.  It is good someone is working on this, rather than, say, how global warming might affect toad mating, or whatever.

I have never been totally convinced by this part of Spencer’s work.  Again, I give him kudos for trying to isolate the effect of single variables in a complex system through actual observation, rather than the lazy approach of running experiments inside computer models of dubious accuracy.  I am not convinced he has achieved this, but I must admit I have not spent a ton of time working it through.

Anyway, Spencer has a long discussion of his methodology in answer to some critics.  I reserve judgment until I have studied it further.  But I was captivated by this bit:

On the positive side, though, MF10 have forced us to go back and reexamine the methodology and conclusions in SB08. As a result, we are now well on the way to new results which will better optimize the matching of satellite-observed climate variability to the simple climate model, including a range of feedback estimates consistent with the satellite data. It is now apparent to us that we did not do a good enough job of that in SB08.

Really?  You shared your data, were criticized, and are modifying your approach based on this criticism?  I thought from the study of the habits of mainstream climate scientists the correct scientific procedure was to 1) hide your data like it was Russian nuclear secrets; 2) prevent any opposing view from getting published; and 3) defend a flawed methodology by getting 10 of your friends to use the same methodology and summarize it all in an IPCC spaghetti graph.

\";}s:3:\"wfw\";a:1:{s:10:\"commentrss\";s:106:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/you-know-it-has-to-be-a-skeptic-writing-when-you-see-this.html/feed\";}s:5:\"slash\";a:1:{s:8:\"comments\";s:2:\"16\";}s:7:\"summary\";s:343:\"I have followed Roy Spencer’s work for a while on trying to measure climate feedback effects from satellite data.  In general, I give him Kudos for actually working on what is really THE critical problem that separates climate catastrophe from climate rounding error.  It is good someone is working on this, rather than, say, how [...]\";s:12:\"atom_content\";s:2126:\"

I have followed Roy Spencer’s work for a while on trying to measure climate feedback effects from satellite data.  In general, I give him Kudos for actually working on what is really THE critical problem that separates climate catastrophe from climate rounding error.  It is good someone is working on this, rather than, say, how global warming might affect toad mating, or whatever.

I have never been totally convinced by this part of Spencer’s work.  Again, I give him kudos for trying to isolate the effect of single variables in a complex system through actual observation, rather than the lazy approach of running experiments inside computer models of dubious accuracy.  I am not convinced he has achieved this, but I must admit I have not spent a ton of time working it through.

Anyway, Spencer has a long discussion of his methodology in answer to some critics.  I reserve judgment until I have studied it further.  But I was captivated by this bit:

On the positive side, though, MF10 have forced us to go back and reexamine the methodology and conclusions in SB08. As a result, we are now well on the way to new results which will better optimize the matching of satellite-observed climate variability to the simple climate model, including a range of feedback estimates consistent with the satellite data. It is now apparent to us that we did not do a good enough job of that in SB08.

Really?  You shared your data, were criticized, and are modifying your approach based on this criticism?  I thought from the study of the habits of mainstream climate scientists the correct scientific procedure was to 1) hide your data like it was Russian nuclear secrets; 2) prevent any opposing view from getting published; and 3) defend a flawed methodology by getting 10 of your friends to use the same methodology and summarize it all in an IPCC spaghetti graph.

\";s:14:\"date_timestamp\";i:1279687854;}i:6;a:14:{s:5:\"title\";s:35:\"Does This Sound Familiar to Anyone?\";s:4:\"link\";s:78:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/does-this-sound-familiar-to-anyone.html\";s:8:\"comments\";s:87:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/does-this-sound-familiar-to-anyone.html#comments\";s:7:\"pubdate\";s:31:\"Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:45:58 +0000\";s:2:\"dc\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";s:5:\"admin\";}s:8:\"category\";s:42:\"Climate Science ProcessTemperature History\";s:4:\"guid\";s:38:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=2008\";s:11:\"description\";s:393:\"Greg Mankiw on scoring the federal stimulus package: the CEA took a conventional Keynesian-style macroeconomic model and used those set of equations to estimate the effect the stimulus should have had.  Essentially, the model offers an estimate of the policy’s effect, conditional on the model being a correct description of the world.  But notice that this exercise is [...]\";s:7:\"content\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";s:3665:\"

Greg Mankiw on scoring the federal stimulus package:

the CEA took a conventional Keynesian-style macroeconomic model and used those set of equations to estimate the effect the stimulus should have had.  Essentially, the model offers an estimate of the policy’s effect, conditional on the model being a correct description of the world.  But notice that this exercise is not really a measurement based on what actually occurred.  Rather, the exercise is premised on the belief that the model is true, so no matter how bad the economy got, the inference is that it would have been even worse without the stimulus.  Why?  Because that is what the model says.  The validity of the model itself is never questioned.

Does this sound like climate science or what?  The same models that are used to predict future temperature increases are used to decide how much of past warming was dues to Co2 and how much was due to natural effects.  Here is the retrospective IPCC chart which assigns more than 100% of post-1950 warming to CO2 (since the blue “natural forcings” is shown to go down, see more here)

\"\"

Here is the stimulus version, showing flat employment, but positing that the stimulus created jobs because employment “would have gone down without it” (sound familiar?)

\"\"

This kind of retrospective look at causality has the look of science but in fact is nothing of the sort, and can be not much more than guesses laundered to look like facts.

But this may in fact be worse than guessing.  In both cases, these graphs are drawn by folks who think they know the answer (in the first case that CO2 caused all warming, in the second that the stimulus created millions of jobs).  Since in both cases the lower “without” case (either without CO2 or without stimulus) is horrendously, almost impossible to derive and totally impossible to measure, there is good reason to believe it is merely a plug, fixed in value to get the answer they want.  But if I plugged it just on the back of an envelope, everyone would call me out for it, so I plug it in an arcane model where numerous inputs can be tweaked to get different results, to avoid this kind of unwanted scrutiny.

Readers of climate sites will also recognize this criticism of Obama’s self-serving stimulus analysis

Moreover, the fact that other organizations simulating similar models come to similar conclusions is no evidence about the validity of the model’s simulations.  It only tells you the CEA staff did not commit egregious programming errors when running their computer simulations.

Sounds like the logic behind the hockey stick spaghetti graphs, no?

\";}s:3:\"wfw\";a:1:{s:10:\"commentrss\";s:83:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/does-this-sound-familiar-to-anyone.html/feed\";}s:5:\"slash\";a:1:{s:8:\"comments\";s:2:\"20\";}s:7:\"summary\";s:393:\"Greg Mankiw on scoring the federal stimulus package: the CEA took a conventional Keynesian-style macroeconomic model and used those set of equations to estimate the effect the stimulus should have had.  Essentially, the model offers an estimate of the policy’s effect, conditional on the model being a correct description of the world.  But notice that this exercise is [...]\";s:12:\"atom_content\";s:3665:\"

Greg Mankiw on scoring the federal stimulus package:

the CEA took a conventional Keynesian-style macroeconomic model and used those set of equations to estimate the effect the stimulus should have had.  Essentially, the model offers an estimate of the policy’s effect, conditional on the model being a correct description of the world.  But notice that this exercise is not really a measurement based on what actually occurred.  Rather, the exercise is premised on the belief that the model is true, so no matter how bad the economy got, the inference is that it would have been even worse without the stimulus.  Why?  Because that is what the model says.  The validity of the model itself is never questioned.

Does this sound like climate science or what?  The same models that are used to predict future temperature increases are used to decide how much of past warming was dues to Co2 and how much was due to natural effects.  Here is the retrospective IPCC chart which assigns more than 100% of post-1950 warming to CO2 (since the blue “natural forcings” is shown to go down, see more here)

\"\"

Here is the stimulus version, showing flat employment, but positing that the stimulus created jobs because employment “would have gone down without it” (sound familiar?)

\"\"

This kind of retrospective look at causality has the look of science but in fact is nothing of the sort, and can be not much more than guesses laundered to look like facts.

But this may in fact be worse than guessing.  In both cases, these graphs are drawn by folks who think they know the answer (in the first case that CO2 caused all warming, in the second that the stimulus created millions of jobs).  Since in both cases the lower “without” case (either without CO2 or without stimulus) is horrendously, almost impossible to derive and totally impossible to measure, there is good reason to believe it is merely a plug, fixed in value to get the answer they want.  But if I plugged it just on the back of an envelope, everyone would call me out for it, so I plug it in an arcane model where numerous inputs can be tweaked to get different results, to avoid this kind of unwanted scrutiny.

Readers of climate sites will also recognize this criticism of Obama’s self-serving stimulus analysis

Moreover, the fact that other organizations simulating similar models come to similar conclusions is no evidence about the validity of the model’s simulations.  It only tells you the CEA staff did not commit egregious programming errors when running their computer simulations.

Sounds like the logic behind the hockey stick spaghetti graphs, no?

\";s:14:\"date_timestamp\";i:1279305958;}i:7;a:14:{s:5:\"title\";s:35:\"Might As Well Be Walking on the Sun\";s:4:\"link\";s:79:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/might-as-well-be-walking-on-the-sun.html\";s:8:\"comments\";s:88:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/might-as-well-be-walking-on-the-sun.html#comments\";s:7:\"pubdate\";s:31:\"Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:48:39 +0000\";s:2:\"dc\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";s:5:\"admin\";}s:8:\"category\";s:23:\"Temperature Measurement\";s:4:\"guid\";s:38:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=2002\";s:11:\"description\";s:341:\"Steve Goddard and Anthony Watt have a series of posts on an old favorite topic on this site — how data manipulations back in the climate office is creating a lot of the “measured” warming.  This particular example is right here in Arizona, and features several sites my son and I surveyed for Anthony’s site.  [...]\";s:7:\"content\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";s:1785:\"

Steve Goddard and Anthony Watt have a series of posts on an old favorite topic on this site — how data manipulations back in the climate office is creating a lot of the “measured” warming.  This particular example is right here in Arizona, and features several sites my son and I surveyed for Anthony’s site.  They have a followup on another Arizona station here.  Check out all the asphalt:

\"\"

This is a hilariously bad siting.  It demonstrates how small things can sometimes have big effects.  The MMTS sensor has a very limited cable length.  This does not mean that it only comes with a short cable (begging the question of why they can’t just buy a longer one), but that it can only have a short cable due to signal amplification issues.  As a result, we get this terrible siting because it needs to be close to the building, whereas even a hundred yards away there were much better locations

\"\"

Carefree is a fairly rural (at least suburban) low density town with lots of undeveloped land.  They had to work to get a siting this bad.  A monkey throwing darts at a map of the area would have gotten a better siting.

\";}s:3:\"wfw\";a:1:{s:10:\"commentrss\";s:84:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/might-as-well-be-walking-on-the-sun.html/feed\";}s:5:\"slash\";a:1:{s:8:\"comments\";s:1:\"6\";}s:7:\"summary\";s:341:\"Steve Goddard and Anthony Watt have a series of posts on an old favorite topic on this site — how data manipulations back in the climate office is creating a lot of the “measured” warming.  This particular example is right here in Arizona, and features several sites my son and I surveyed for Anthony’s site.  [...]\";s:12:\"atom_content\";s:1785:\"

Steve Goddard and Anthony Watt have a series of posts on an old favorite topic on this site — how data manipulations back in the climate office is creating a lot of the “measured” warming.  This particular example is right here in Arizona, and features several sites my son and I surveyed for Anthony’s site.  They have a followup on another Arizona station here.  Check out all the asphalt:

\"\"

This is a hilariously bad siting.  It demonstrates how small things can sometimes have big effects.  The MMTS sensor has a very limited cable length.  This does not mean that it only comes with a short cable (begging the question of why they can’t just buy a longer one), but that it can only have a short cable due to signal amplification issues.  As a result, we get this terrible siting because it needs to be close to the building, whereas even a hundred yards away there were much better locations

\"\"

Carefree is a fairly rural (at least suburban) low density town with lots of undeveloped land.  They had to work to get a siting this bad.  A monkey throwing darts at a map of the area would have gotten a better siting.

\";s:14:\"date_timestamp\";i:1279126119;}i:8;a:14:{s:5:\"title\";s:20:\"Absolutely Hilarious\";s:4:\"link\";s:64:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/absolutely-hilarious.html\";s:8:\"comments\";s:73:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/absolutely-hilarious.html#comments\";s:7:\"pubdate\";s:31:\"Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:44:17 +0000\";s:2:\"dc\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";s:5:\"admin\";}s:8:\"category\";s:23:\"Climate Science Process\";s:4:\"guid\";s:38:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=2000\";s:11:\"description\";s:276:\"I know I am late on this but I am trying to spool back up on this site so allow me to catch up.  It turned out that that the IPCC’s Amazon claim (that 40% of the rain forest was at risk from global warming) came from the Facebook page of a 12-year-old girl.  OK, [...]\";s:7:\"content\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";s:625:\"

I know I am late on this but I am trying to spool back up on this site so allow me to catch up.  It turned out that that the IPCC’s Amazon claim (that 40% of the rain forest was at risk from global warming) came from the Facebook page of a 12-year-old girl.  OK, just kidding, it didn’t, but the source is not much better — apparently the claim was just thrown up on a web page of a Brazilian activist organization in 1999, and then pulled down in 2003.  Everything since has been one long game of “telephone.”  The whole story is fascinating and worth reading.

\";}s:3:\"wfw\";a:1:{s:10:\"commentrss\";s:69:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/absolutely-hilarious.html/feed\";}s:5:\"slash\";a:1:{s:8:\"comments\";s:2:\"10\";}s:7:\"summary\";s:276:\"I know I am late on this but I am trying to spool back up on this site so allow me to catch up.  It turned out that that the IPCC’s Amazon claim (that 40% of the rain forest was at risk from global warming) came from the Facebook page of a 12-year-old girl.  OK, [...]\";s:12:\"atom_content\";s:625:\"

I know I am late on this but I am trying to spool back up on this site so allow me to catch up.  It turned out that that the IPCC’s Amazon claim (that 40% of the rain forest was at risk from global warming) came from the Facebook page of a 12-year-old girl.  OK, just kidding, it didn’t, but the source is not much better — apparently the claim was just thrown up on a web page of a Brazilian activist organization in 1999, and then pulled down in 2003.  Everything since has been one long game of “telephone.”  The whole story is fascinating and worth reading.

\";s:14:\"date_timestamp\";i:1279125857;}i:9;a:14:{s:5:\"title\";s:38:\"Great Academics Go Along With the Pack\";s:4:\"link\";s:82:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/great-academics-go-along-with-the-pack.html\";s:8:\"comments\";s:91:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/great-academics-go-along-with-the-pack.html#comments\";s:7:\"pubdate\";s:31:\"Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:13:35 +0000\";s:2:\"dc\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";s:5:\"admin\";}s:8:\"category\";s:23:\"Climate Science Process\";s:4:\"guid\";s:38:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/?p=1997\";s:11:\"description\";s:331:\"It would be an understatement to say that much of the focus in villifying skeptics has been on the skeptic’s funding.  The storyline goes that skeptics are only fighting the obvious because they are paid off by oil and coal companies. But of course, it turns out that global warming alarmists get far more funding than [...]\";s:7:\"content\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";s:3997:\"

It would be an understatement to say that much of the focus in villifying skeptics has been on the skeptic’s funding.  The storyline goes that skeptics are only fighting the obvious because they are paid off by oil and coal companies.

But of course, it turns out that global warming alarmists get far more funding than skeptics, likely 100x as much or more (funding for skeptics is at most a million dollar or two a year, and that may be high — funding for alarmists by governments alone is in the billions a year).  The quick reply of leading alarmist scientists is that the money is incidental.

I am generally willing to take them at their word — I find trying to look into other people’s hearts to be a hopeless exercise.  And besides, does anyone really think the folks who, say, believe in or oppose string theory are taking those positions for the money.  If I really had to discuss incentives, I would argue that prestige and wanting to belong are actually stronger motivations for alarmist scientists, as preaching doom seems to lead to fame while being a skeptic seems to lead to academic shunning.

So I have generally avoided the topic of monetary motivation of alarmists, but what am I to think when Penn State makes the case in its report on Michael Mann?  In a rather straight-forward way, they make the case that Mann is a good climate scientist because he is good at obtaining funding

This level of success in proposing research, and obtaining funding to conduct it, clearly places Dr. Mann among the most respected scientists in his field. Such success would not have been possible had he not met or exceeded the highest standards of his profession for proposing research…

Had Dr. Mann’s conduct of his research been outside the range of accepted practices, it would have been impossible for him to receive so many awards and recognitions, which typically involve intense scrutiny from scientists who may or may not agree with his scientific conclusions…

Clearly, Dr. Mann’s reporting of his research has been successful and judged to be outstanding by his peers. This would have been impossible had his activities in reporting his work been outside of accepted practices in his field.

This argument is OK as far as it goes, but implicitly defines a great academic as “someone who goes along with the pack.”  Note that skeptics cannot claim to get  a lot of research grants, because the alarmists control the funding.  Skeptics can’t get into peer-reviewed journals, because, as the East Anglia emails make clear, a small group of alarmist scientists are blocking their publication.  Mann’s research has been judged outstanding by his peers because he agrees with his peers.

In a large sense, Penn State’s only test of Mann’s ability is that he is currently a member in good standing of the small in-crowd that dominates climate science.  His science is good because it comes to the right conclusions.

Unlike many skeptics, I have no desire to “get” Professor Mann.  I don’t need him fired or even investigated by Penn State.  The way to refute him is to refute him, not haul him in front of tribunals.

That being said, Penn State did start and investigation and as such has some responsibility to do the thing right.  And boy was this a joke.   The most charitable thing I can say is that his work is fraught with more questionable decisions and practices and approaches than anything I have ever seen that was taken this seriously.  We could talk about it for days, but here is one example to get you thinking.

\";}s:3:\"wfw\";a:1:{s:10:\"commentrss\";s:87:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2010/07/great-academics-go-along-with-the-pack.html/feed\";}s:5:\"slash\";a:1:{s:8:\"comments\";s:2:\"30\";}s:7:\"summary\";s:331:\"It would be an understatement to say that much of the focus in villifying skeptics has been on the skeptic’s funding.  The storyline goes that skeptics are only fighting the obvious because they are paid off by oil and coal companies. But of course, it turns out that global warming alarmists get far more funding than [...]\";s:12:\"atom_content\";s:3997:\"

It would be an understatement to say that much of the focus in villifying skeptics has been on the skeptic’s funding.  The storyline goes that skeptics are only fighting the obvious because they are paid off by oil and coal companies.

But of course, it turns out that global warming alarmists get far more funding than skeptics, likely 100x as much or more (funding for skeptics is at most a million dollar or two a year, and that may be high — funding for alarmists by governments alone is in the billions a year).  The quick reply of leading alarmist scientists is that the money is incidental.

I am generally willing to take them at their word — I find trying to look into other people’s hearts to be a hopeless exercise.  And besides, does anyone really think the folks who, say, believe in or oppose string theory are taking those positions for the money.  If I really had to discuss incentives, I would argue that prestige and wanting to belong are actually stronger motivations for alarmist scientists, as preaching doom seems to lead to fame while being a skeptic seems to lead to academic shunning.

So I have generally avoided the topic of monetary motivation of alarmists, but what am I to think when Penn State makes the case in its report on Michael Mann?  In a rather straight-forward way, they make the case that Mann is a good climate scientist because he is good at obtaining funding

This level of success in proposing research, and obtaining funding to conduct it, clearly places Dr. Mann among the most respected scientists in his field. Such success would not have been possible had he not met or exceeded the highest standards of his profession for proposing research…

Had Dr. Mann’s conduct of his research been outside the range of accepted practices, it would have been impossible for him to receive so many awards and recognitions, which typically involve intense scrutiny from scientists who may or may not agree with his scientific conclusions…

Clearly, Dr. Mann’s reporting of his research has been successful and judged to be outstanding by his peers. This would have been impossible had his activities in reporting his work been outside of accepted practices in his field.

This argument is OK as far as it goes, but implicitly defines a great academic as “someone who goes along with the pack.”  Note that skeptics cannot claim to get  a lot of research grants, because the alarmists control the funding.  Skeptics can’t get into peer-reviewed journals, because, as the East Anglia emails make clear, a small group of alarmist scientists are blocking their publication.  Mann’s research has been judged outstanding by his peers because he agrees with his peers.

In a large sense, Penn State’s only test of Mann’s ability is that he is currently a member in good standing of the small in-crowd that dominates climate science.  His science is good because it comes to the right conclusions.

Unlike many skeptics, I have no desire to “get” Professor Mann.  I don’t need him fired or even investigated by Penn State.  The way to refute him is to refute him, not haul him in front of tribunals.

That being said, Penn State did start and investigation and as such has some responsibility to do the thing right.  And boy was this a joke.   The most charitable thing I can say is that his work is fraught with more questionable decisions and practices and approaches than anything I have ever seen that was taken this seriously.  We could talk about it for days, but here is one example to get you thinking.

\";s:14:\"date_timestamp\";i:1279124015;}}s:7:\"channel\";a:7:{s:5:\"title\";s:15:\"Climate Skeptic\";s:4:\"link\";s:30:\"http://www.climate-skeptic.com\";s:13:\"lastbuilddate\";s:31:\"Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:34:42 +0000\";s:9:\"generator\";s:29:\"http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2\";s:8:\"language\";s:2:\"en\";s:2:\"sy\";a:2:{s:12:\"updateperiod\";s:6:\"hourly\";s:15:\"updatefrequency\";s:1:\"1\";}s:7:\"tagline\";N;}s:9:\"textinput\";a:0:{}s:5:\"image\";a:0:{}s:9:\"feed_type\";s:3:\"RSS\";s:12:\"feed_version\";s:3:\"2.0\";s:8:\"encoding\";s:5:\"utf-8\";s:16:\"_source_encoding\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"ERROR\";s:0:\"\";s:7:\"WARNING\";s:0:\"\";s:19:\"_CONTENT_CONSTRUCTS\";a:6:{i:0;s:7:\"content\";i:1;s:7:\"summary\";i:2;s:4:\"info\";i:3;s:5:\"title\";i:4;s:7:\"tagline\";i:5;s:9:\"copyright\";}s:16:\"_KNOWN_ENCODINGS\";a:3:{i:0;s:5:\"UTF-8\";i:1;s:8:\"US-ASCII\";i:2;s:10:\"ISO-8859-1\";}s:5:\"stack\";a:0:{}s:9:\"inchannel\";b:0;s:6:\"initem\";b:0;s:9:\"incontent\";b:0;s:11:\"intextinput\";b:0;s:7:\"inimage\";b:0;s:13:\"current_field\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"current_namespace\";b:0;}Unable to save raw data in database.

O:9:\"MagpieRSS\":22:{s:6:\"parser\";i:0;s:12:\"current_item\";a:0:{}s:5:\"items\";a:0:{}s:7:\"channel\";a:0:{}s:9:\"textinput\";a:0:{}s:5:\"image\";a:0:{}s:9:\"feed_type\";N;s:12:\"feed_version\";N;s:8:\"encoding\";s:5:\"utf-8\";s:16:\"_source_encoding\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"ERROR\";s:57:\"SYSTEM or PUBLIC, the URI is missing at line 1, column 48\";s:7:\"WARNING\";s:0:\"\";s:19:\"_CONTENT_CONSTRUCTS\";a:6:{i:0;s:7:\"content\";i:1;s:7:\"summary\";i:2;s:4:\"info\";i:3;s:5:\"title\";i:4;s:7:\"tagline\";i:5;s:9:\"copyright\";}s:16:\"_KNOWN_ENCODINGS\";a:3:{i:0;s:5:\"UTF-8\";i:1;s:8:\"US-ASCII\";i:2;s:10:\"ISO-8859-1\";}s:5:\"stack\";a:0:{}s:9:\"inchannel\";b:0;s:6:\"initem\";b:0;s:9:\"incontent\";b:0;s:11:\"intextinput\";b:0;s:7:\"inimage\";b:0;s:13:\"current_field\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"current_namespace\";b:0;}
Headlines

»Climate Con is Ending! Big umbrella climate lobbying group shuts down after climate bill stalls -- 'Will phase out its operations'
»Shameless Sham: Oxburgh Tricks the Committee: 45 Hours in Norwich to produce Climategate leaflet -- 'all five of pages of it – appeared 'rushed and superficial'
ȣ40,000 for a Climategate whitewash? Nice work, if you can get it, Sir Muir Russell!
»After a Year of Setbacks, UN Looks to Take Charge of World's Agenda: Looks to 'restore 'climate change' as a top global priority...continue to try to make global redistribution of wealth' a priority
»President of The of League of Conservation Voters: 'If climate skeptics win in November, things don't look good for Earth' -email-
Warns of 'disturbing trend' among GOP candidates: 'These candidates are full-fledged global-warming ...
»Old Farmer's Almanac: 'Global cooling to continue' -- 'Colder-than-usual winter predicted'
»Let the bulb hoarding begin: Incandescent light bulb factory closes; End of era for U.S. means more jobs overseas
»Flashback: NYT's Friedman lauds China's eco-policies: 'One party can just impose politically difficult but critically important policies needed to move a society forward' (Photo of Friedman's house)
»Carbon cuts leave Chinese factories in chaos -- 'Iron-fisted' regulations kick in: 'We had no water to flush the toilet, we couldn't use the fridge and of course production stopped'
»'Energy Sec. Steven Chu visits University of Charleston to resurrect cap-and-trade via the Trojan Horse of carbon capture and sequestration'


Date published: not known
Details

»August 2010 UAH Global Temperature Update: +0.51 deg. C
YR MON GLOBE NH SH TROPICS 2009 1 0.251 0.472 0.030 -0.068 2009 2 0.247 ...
»On the Debunking of Spencer’s Feedback Ideas: An Appeal to Physical Scientists Everywhere
I am seeing increasing chatter about one or more papers that will (or already have) debunked my idea ...
»The IPCC, Tipping Points, and Why Global Warming Must Remain Uncertain
Now that I have opened the political Pandora’s Box, I might as well continue getting some of this o ...
»The Persistence of Paradigms
I received a question from a reader today regarding why the writer of a recent article summarizing ...
»Dump the IPCC Process, It Cannot Be Fixed
In a recent opinion piece, Ross McKitrick has argued that the IPCC process needs to be fixed. He c ...
»Our JGR Paper on Feedbacks is Published
After years of re-submissions and re-writes — always to accommodate a single hostile reviewer ...
»Daily Global Temperature Updates on the Discover Website: An Updated Tutorial
I’m getting more and more questions about the daily global temperature updates we provide at t ...
»Still Cooling: Sea Surface Temperatures thru August 18, 2010
Sea Surface Temperatures (SSTs) measured by the AMSR-E instrument on NASA’s Aqua satellite con ...
»Help! Back Radiation has Invaded my Backyard!
Measuring The (Nonexistent) Greenhouse Effect in My Backyard with a Handheld IR Thermometer and The ...
»Comments on Miskolczi’s (2010) Controversial Greenhouse Theory
SPECIAL MESSAGE: For those following Miskolczi’s work, and his claims regarding “Aa=Ed ...


Date published: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 20:52:39 +0000
Details




Date published: not known
Details

»Forecasting
One of the defenses often used by climate modelers against charges that climate is simple to complex ...
»Why It Is Good to Have Two Sides of A Debate
With climate alarmists continuing to declare climate debate to be over and asking skeptics to just g ...
»Just When I Thought I Had Seen the Worst Possible Peer-Reviewed Climate Work…
This is really some crazy-bad science in a new study by Welch et al on Asian rice yields purporting ...
»Computers are Causing Global Warming
At least, that is, in Nepal.  Willis Eschenbach has an interesting post looking into the claim that ...
»Garbage In, Money Out
In my Forbes column last week, I discuss the incredible similarity between the computer models tha ...
»You Know it Has to Be A Skeptic Writing When You See This
I have followed Roy Spencer’s work for a while on trying to measure climate feedback effects f ...
»Does This Sound Familiar to Anyone?
Greg Mankiw on scoring the federal stimulus package: the CEA took a conventional Keynesian-style mac ...
»Might As Well Be Walking on the Sun
Steve Goddard and Anthony Watt have a series of posts on an old favorite topic on this site — ...
»Absolutely Hilarious
I know I am late on this but I am trying to spool back up on this site so allow me to catch up.  It ...
»Great Academics Go Along With the Pack
It would be an understatement to say that much of the focus in villifying skeptics has been on the s ...


Date published: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:34:42 +0000
Details

»Light Bulb Factory Closes; End of Era for U.S. means More Jobs Overseas
By Peter Whoriskey The last major GE factory making ordinary incandescent light bulbs in the United ...
»The Environmental Movement in Retreat
By George F. Will The collapsing crusade for legislation to combat climate change raises a question: ...
»Expert: Discovery Gunman far from First Eco-Terrorist
By James Tillman James Lee, the gunman who entered the Discovery Channel building and took three hos ...
»Meltdown of the Climate ‘Consensus’
By Matt Patterson If this keeps up, no one’s going to trust any scientists. The global-warming ...
»Man Holds Discovery Channel Hostage to Save the Squirrels
James Lee, who claims to have been inspired by “Ishmael,” a book about a telepathic gori ...


Date published: not known
Details

»Oxburgh Tricks the Committee: 45 Hours in Norwich
In response to a question asking Oxburgh about criticisms that the report – all five of pages ...
»Oxburgh at Sci Tech Committee Tomorrow
Notice of the Oxburgh hearing is here at 10.30 am UK time ( 5.30 am Eastern). The Science and Techno ...
»ICOADS – Hawaii
Although the formatting of the SST datasets needs to be completely freshened up, once again, before ...
»A First Look at ICOADS
For quite a while, I’ve urged people interested in gridded temperatures to really look at the ...
»Tar and Z
Over the weekend (before I picked up my “regular” files), I started looking at Steve Mos ...
»Back from Erice
Got back from the annual WFS conference at Erice, Sicily a couple of days ago. It is an interdiscipl ...
»Kriging on a Geoid
Geoff Sherrington and others on the First Difference Method post have requested a post for discussin ...
»Replicating McShane and Wyner
R coder mind of a Markov chain has replicated portions of the M&W work. They write: There are a ...
»The First Difference Method
Over on WUWT (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/13/calculating-global-temperature/), Zeke Hausfarth ...
»Signal to Noise Ratio Estimates of Mann08 Temperature Proxy Data
Guest post by Jeff Id from The Air Vent (used by invitation) Occasionally when working on one thing ...


Date published: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:55:52 +0000
Details




Date published: not known
Details




Date published: not known
Details

»Interesting nuances in IPCC groups treatment of New Zealand temperature data
We have all seen the news that The New Zealand Climate Science Education Trust, a newly registered a ...
»Record snow in Victorian Alps – ACT Govt brings in 40% emissions target
Interesting juxtaposition of news today – record snowfalls at Falls Creek and the ACT GreenLab ...
»Contradiction in Victorian bushfires reporting
The Royal Commission into the 2009 Black Saturday bushfires has released its report. My main intere ...
»Are we being conned with excessive water charges ?
I noticed Andrew Bolt drawing attention to plans by the Victorian Govt to release 10 billion litres ...
»Is this the most ridiculous idea ever on climate ?
Our new Prime Minister Julia Gillard has announced a new plan with a so-called “citizens ...
»GreenLeft media pumping out climate rubbish
With its new Labor Prime Minister Julia Gillard – Australia is due for an election soon and th ...
»BoM incompetence again – for the 5th month in a row
The BoM rolling 3 month rainfall Outlook prediction published in late March. Has turned out to be j ...
»Wrist slashing ETS in New Zealand
Sent in by a couple of Concerned Kiwis On July 1st New Zealanders became the first country in the wo ...
»Cargo cult GreenLabor tax idiots exposed now
Those of us downunder will know of the Rudd Labor Govts plans announced 3 May 2010 to introduce a Re ...
»Caucus vote on Australian Prime Minister 9am 24 June
Amazing scenes at Parliament House in Canberra tonight as Australia works through its home-grown ver ...


Date published: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:01:48 +0000
Details
Latest Forum Posts
Posted by Denny
Reactions to the findings of the last of the inves[more ...]
26 Jul : 11:56

Posted by Denny
For those who want an insight into what our master[more ...]
26 Jul : 11:28

Posted by Denny
Those who are most enthusiastic about drastic meas[more ...]
26 Jul : 11:18

Posted by Denny
They insist on calling the issue settled, yet -- b[more ...]
26 Jul : 11:10

Posted by Denny
Hansen’s twin pit bulls, Tamino and Gavin, have la[more ...]
26 Jul : 10:56

Posted by Denny
There has been quite a flurry of activity over the[more ...]
25 Jul : 11:24

Posted by Denny
Between the current financial mess and the debate [more ...]
25 Jul : 10:56

Posted by Denny
The abandonment of comprehensive legislation on cl[more ...]
25 Jul : 10:20

Posted by Denny
Do you remember the Institute of Physics submissi[more ...]
25 Jul : 10:10

Posted by Denny
Warmists may be winning the big grants, but they'r[more ...]
25 Jul : 09:49

Chatbox



stop smoking pot
08 Sep : 15:20
Hey now! "H. was a Socialist" He was not right wing...
left equals totalitarian Govt.
Centrist equals
limited Govt.
Right equals,
No Govt./ anarchy.

That's the true break down


WCK
08 Sep : 15:13
I thought everyone already knew that the modern environmental movement had its roots in the "Green Wing" of the Nazi Party.



It is easy enough to visit CPUSA to learn that the majority of the Progressive's ideas came from Communism.




Hitler was a socialist
08 Sep : 12:27
To the last Anonymous: Have you heard of the National Socialist German Workers' Party (National-Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei--NSDAP)? That was Hitler's political party. They were known as the Nazis.

During the war Hitler suspended many "rights", as do most governments during time of war. But Hitler was a right wing socialist and his beliefs were much the same as that of the modern day socialist liberals.

Its funny that Hitler came to power due to the hard economic times following the depression. Using fear and promises of a better life for the people of Germany. Much the same thing as "hope and change" Obama. Hitler blamed the Jews, Obama blames the Christians. Scary.


stop smoking pot
08 Sep : 11:06
Liberal is a stolen word by the left just as progressive is a stolen word by the left, on the left you have the various forms of Marxism, they are socialists, fascists, nazis, communists, then the happy words the try to hide behind, Liberal, Progressive, Social Democrats,
Progressive Democrats,
Democrats, last but not least,
Environmentalist.


Anonymous
07 Sep : 20:23
you are a moronic canadian. you can find history books in canada, can't you?

real ones! open a text book and stop reading your favorite conspiracy theory websites.


Anonymous
07 Sep : 20:21
in which bogus science literature did you obtain this uncommon knowledge from?

since when is the fascist Hitler a liberal???

since when are communists like mao and stalin liberals?

you don't have a clue on this earth about politics.

you've been brainwashed into thinking that anyone who is not on the extreme American flag waving right wing is out to get you! lol

wow. unbelievable.


hitler a liberal?????? you really don't have a clue about politics or science.

wow. I've never heard anyone get political ideologies so screwed up.



RGB
07 Sep : 18:38
Anon:
Maxing out @ 60 PPM is pretty much common knowledge. What part of quantum physics am i violating? As I asked before, how does AGW fit into the medieval warming period? I'll answer, it doesn't. Therefore it had to be something else. Right. Do you follow? Something like the sun and/or storms thereon, cosmic rays, etc. CO2 had nothing to do with it. Period. End of story. The only constant in nature is change. Live with it.


RGB
07 Sep : 18:22
Anon:
Maybe you should read some history, Stalin, Mao, Hitler 150 million plus. Cambodia, Ukraine et al. Damn you don't know anything - must be an art's student. Keep reading fiction. By the way, I'm a Canadian, moron.


Anonymous
07 Sep : 18:06
during which war did these supposed liberals murder 150 people? wow, you must be from the US. I've never heard such a screwed up sense of history in my life.


Anonymous
07 Sep : 17:59
If there is no greenhouse effect, and water vapor, co2, methane and other greenhouse gasses don't warm up the atmosphere, then why isn't the earth the same temperature as space???

I'd love to hear you explain that one!


Anonymous
07 Sep : 17:54
the effects of co2 max out? that goes against physics. Are you trying to re-write the laws of thermal dynamics and quantum physics?

we all know that the earth has been warmer and cooler in the past. that does not disprove the physics of thermal dynamics.

you should write a book about everything you know about thermal dynamics. It would be a short and hysterical read.

where do you come up with this nonsense?


Anonymous
07 Sep : 17:49
ddt hoax? so you think ddt is not an extremely toxic substance?

are you willing to bet your life on that? why don't you go bathe in ddt to see what occurs?


RGB
07 Sep : 17:38
Anon:
The left murdered, it is estimated, over 150 million people last century. That's not counting the millions who died from malaria due to the DDT hoax. The effects of CO2 max out at 60 PPM, which we have been over for centuries. Please explain AGW back in the medieval times when it was warmer then than it is now.


stop smoking pot
07 Sep : 15:35
How much is to much Anon??
all the CO2 makes up only 1 10th of 1 percent of our total atmosphere, man made CO2, that "the evil CO2" according to you makes up only 1 20th of that!!
The amount of CO2 and radiation you warmist keep hanging on to up in the stratosphere is crazy, that's 20 miles up and then you keep telling me that radiation comes back down through the commercial air traffic at 35,000 feet that happens to be around minus 45 degrees F.!!

And still has the ability to warm up the planet??


R.Danneskjöld
07 Sep : 14:51
Anonymous (or any other alarmist): So if we keep adding CO2 to the atmosphere the world will continue to warm? Regardless of how much CO2 we add?


stop smoking pot
07 Sep : 13:57
Ha!

I have a blackberry
and haven't been to Disney for 40 years... Unlike
err and anon, who obviously go every DAY!


Anonymous
07 Sep : 13:04
and gore has nothing to do the the science of global warming. He did not make up the physics that occurs when we add pollution to this world.

once again, you confuse science with politics.

co2 absorbs radiation. more co2 creates a warmer environment. We have the technology to measure the difference between naturally occurring co2 and co2 induced by man. we have measured it. we know what man has caused and what we have not. and of course we continue to learn more. but the more we learn, the more we find the science to say the same thing.


Anonymous
07 Sep : 13:04
to say that terrorists get support from liberal minded Americans is a complete lie. you obviously don't have a clue what liberals value or support. it is not killing innocent people, that is for sure.




err on the good
06 Sep : 21:48
won't someof your saudi backers kick in?
saudi's back other terrorist


Admin
04 Sep : 15:33
We would like to remind people that we are having issues paying the bills to stay online. As one of the top 'go to' sites for informing the public of the true science behind this global warming boondoggle it is important that we keep the doors open (btw: we reach thousands, each and every day!)

Donations are always welcome, large or small! You may want to consider making your donation repeating (e.g. $10 / month). Advertiser support is also extremely important. And to maintain a healthy debate we need you to help drive more visitors. Please consider adding a link to us in your emails and forum signatures.

I'll put my tin can away now.

Thank you!
Admin



WCK
04 Sep : 10:24
SSP - thanks.

RGB - I think anon & err (likely the same person) are kids playing on the board spouting "progressive" talking points. They feel that FOX is owned by Saudis who fund terror with oil $. The Saudi that has FOX shares, Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, owns them through his Kingdom Holding Company who has ownership in many US companies. Gosh I didn't realize that by buying an Apple I-Phone or going to Disney World I was funding terrorism. Anyway News Corp went "green" in 2006 and accepted global warming as fact.


RGB
03 Sep : 17:45
Re: Fox News
Who owns the most. You say the Saudis are #2. What are the percentages?. Means sweet tweet if it's 99 & 1%. The main concern would be if suddenly Fox became pro-Islamic, I don't watch it, so I don't know. However I haven't seen or heard that this is the case.


stop smoking pot
03 Sep : 17:37
The less drilling the higher the price of oil.
The only problem is that the enviros and govt. regulation have made drilling in the U.S. to expensive. Even though oil reserves in the U.S. land mass have the same amounts of oil that the Gulf has.
It would be much safer to drill on land then in deep water.


stop smoking pot
03 Sep : 15:20
""isn't President Obama aiding and abetting terrorists by placing a moratorium on drilling in the gulf and forcing us to import more foreign oil?""

BINGO! Touche' WCK


WCK
03 Sep : 13:42
Question for Err. Based on your belief that $ for foreign oil supports terrorism, isn't President Obama aiding and abetting terrorists by placing a moratorium on drilling in the gulf and forcing us to import more foreign oil? Doh!


Relevant Sponsors

Donations - Any Amount:




* or *


Advertise on this site
Sceptic Gear

Global Warming Feature


A must watch DVD

Quote to Consider
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

-- Thomas Jefferson


Thomas Jefferson on big government
Poll

Should NASA's James Hansen's Data Be Independently Audited?


No. James Hansen would never manipulate data

Yes. This is way too important to trust one man or office.

Who cares. I rarely have an opinion about anything.



Posted by Admin
Votes: 976 Comments: 2
Previous polls

RSS Feeds
Our comments can be syndicated by using these rss feeds.
rss1.0
rss2.0
rdf

Road Gear

License Plate Frames
Support the Truth

Skeptic License Plate Frame
"SKEPTIC"

It's Natural License Plate Frame
"It`s Natural"

Liberty License Plate Frame
"Liberty"

* MORE *
Strong and durable metal license plate holder. Uses full color high resolution images. UV and Water Protection. Satisfaction Guaranteed
Welcome
Username:

Password:


Remember me

[ ]
[ ]
[ ]
Other News
Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScD
Admin, Thursday 14 May 2009 - 16:27:59 // comment: 85 //     printer friendly   //     Font Size - Increase / Decrease / Reset

The climate models used in the IPCC reports have made predictions of increases in global temperature of 2ºC to 6ºC over present levels by 2100. These predictions were based on assumptions regarding future CO2 levels and that water vapor would provide a large positive feedback effect. Dr. Weinstein (former NASA Senior Research Scientist) shows how both of these assumptions are either wrong or greatly exaggerated.
[ Read the rest ... ]


Comments
Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDAnonymous |07 Jun : 13:03
Guest


Reply to this
i too look forward to Dr Weinstein's response.

Re: Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDneither proven nor disproven |22 Mar : 09:23
Guest


Reply to this
I love how the people that believe this is a hoax try to prove the predictions of global warming will take place is a myth because of predictions being inaccurate... umm think about that, you are predicting that predictions aren't facts... well no [censored]... it is a prediction, if it was accurate we would call it a fact, listen what is proven is that the earth is getting hotter, the real question is why? is it because of humans or because it is natural for the earth to make changes on its own? I think what we should be more concerned with is keeping our planet clean regardless of what or who is causing this heat up/ change. If it is us doing it, then prove it, if it is not us doing it, then prove it. truth is... no one really knows why this is happening and we are all just trying to make sense of it... the example i like to use is simply, if someone or a bunch of someones came in to your home and trashed the place, would you ask them to clean it up? ask them to help you clean it up? or would you do it yourself? what if they destroyed your prized keepsake? something priceless? something you couldn't restore? Regardless of your answer if they destroyed a keepsake it would probably hurt or at least suck pretty bad, and your home should be clean right? most people try to keep their homes clean but forget that the earth is their home also.... All I am saying is keep our world clean. And going green doesn't hurt so why be against it? it will save you money in the long run anyway, even if you think global warming is crap.

Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDlweinstein |09 Jun : 06:35
Guest


Reply to this
There is no issue with the fact that the temperature has increased over the last century, with a significant part from 1970 to 2002. However world wide, the temperature has leveled off then decreased since then. If you read my post at you will see that this appears to fit natural trends. The proposed feedback is directly falsified by one fact-the absolute water vapor content has NOT increased at the same time as the temperature increase (measured from space and direct atmospheric measurements) and that increase was required to satisfy the modelers proposed feedback idea. In addition, the positive feedback is not logical since it requires a cycle of CO2 causing a small direct temperature increase which is supposed to cause in increase in water vapor, and the water vapor is the thing that has a positive feedback. If that were true, anything that caused a temperature increase would also initiate the feedback cycle. Season to season variation, caused by changing Sun angle as Earth goes around the Sun, make summer average temperatures increase a lot, but there is no positive feedback above the new balance of incoming insolation minus outgoing radiation and convection. This shows there is no gain factor for the water vapor. If you have a suggestion on some new interaction (CO2 Biosphere ?) please explain. Also note that in long past times there has been much more CO2 in the atmosphere, including during many ice ages. We are presently in a generally impoverished CO2 period of history (the last several million years). I agree we should be careful on use of finite resources, and need to clean up our pollution, but CO2 is not a pollutant. In fact, if the CO2 were not as high as it is, and rising, world crop levels would have a much greater difficulty in meeting food demands.

Re: Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDneither proven nor disproven |22 Mar : 09:31
Guest


Reply to this
Are you even a Dr.? I'm not and even I know that CO2 in are atmosphere operates on a delicate balance... it must be at a high level to help crops and produce. what has been found is elevated levels. Levels at almost 3 times the norm. That is an issue. Now I am not saying it is because of us or that it is not because of us but I am saying that these findings are Facts. It could be the earth and the atmosphere letting less CO2 out. I don't know, I am not a scientist. But these levels have been confirmed from both sides.

Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDJayd |02 Jul : 12:53
Guest


Reply to this
I think you are correct that nothing can be proven to be correlated or causal from the data. The data does, however, tend to support that any changes in the CO2 levels would pale in comparison to changes in H2O levels of which we have no control over. We also know that there is only very little man-made effect to the CO2 levels. We produce a small percentage in comparison to the plant life in the ocean.
Let's say, however, that we knew for a fact that CO2 causes global warming and that we can can cool the planet by limiting greenhouse gases. Should we? We would have to know that a warmer environment isn't better when we know a warmer environment is better for plant life. More plants, less starvation. Would the ocean rise enough to flood us all out? Probably not. Would a change in cycle of the sun cause a decrease in temperature? Are we possibly staving off another ice age? Would the increase in CO2 cause an increase in plant life which would in turn cause more water to be held on land by plants limiting any rise in the oceans?

We know almost nothing yet want to start doing everything we can do. So let's pretend that we know that if we start doing something now, we can prevent the loss of a million lives. We spend trillions of dollars on reducing greenhouse emissions. We convince the rest of the world to do the same. The money we would have saved by not doing anything could have been used to save more than a million lives. The loss of income by the 3rd world nations would be dramatic, since they do not have the technology to go green. Lives would be lost because they are not able to feed themselves.
So lets recap. 1.) We are not sure that the global warming we have seen is not just part of the natural cycle. 2.) We are not sure that the global temperature isn't already decreasing. 3.) We are not sure that CO2 has a measurable effect on the global temperature. 4.) We are not sure that man produces enough CO2 to measurably effect even the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. 5.) We are not sure that any change that we would make could effect the global temperature. 6.) We are not sure that a warmer environment would not be preferrable. 7.) We are not sure what effects of the sun, H2o levels, etc would have on future temperatures. 8.) We are not sure that a warming of the earth would cost any lives. 9.) We are not sure what actions should or could be taken to create a positive effect. There is only one thing in which we can be sure. The quick actions the politicians are currently intending on taking will cost trillions. That is a lot of what ifs for trillions of dollars.

Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDsan_quintin |20 Aug : 11:26
Guest


Reply to this
Dr Weinstein. Do you have any publications in climate science? I ask because yours views on climate change are at variance with the vast majority of climate scientists (and I include climatologists, Quaternary scientists, glaciologists, climate modellers, atmospheric physicists and chemists in this). You are a scientist (like me) and we both know how science works. If you are so sure that AGW is a hoax then publish your ideas in a mainstream science journal.

We both know that you won't, and we both know why. It's because your ideas are largely nonsense. If you don't believe me then try and blog at Realclimate or Open Mind. You may be able to convince lay people, but you don't convince scientists.

Re: Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDbongodoggie |13 Feb : 08:32
Guest


Reply to this
It is very popular now to use the term ‘science’ as a sort of argumentative karate chop. Global warmists and global skeptics both proclaim views backed by the pure weight of science. It is almost as if there are now two sciences, which I’ll call the old and the new.

It is worthwhile to look at how the new science is trying to replace the old science. There are times when the old science does not support the conclusions of the new science, so there has been a modern adjusting of the rules. This changing of the rules helps gives credence to such notions as global warming, and has much support in organizations such as the EPA, politicians, and the general public. The claim is made that most scientists in the field, experts in climatology, support the idea of human induced global warming. Unfortunately, by limiting opinions to experts in the field, we are exposed to serious intellectual inbreeding, many who are disciples of the new science. Excluded are the old scientists who actually follow the rules of statistics and come from such stuffy worn fields like physics, chemistry, and engineering. Amongst them are many climate skeptics.

Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDAnonymouse |16 Sep : 23:26
Guest


Reply to this
@ san_quintin : 20 Aug : 12:29

Unfortunately, you are incorrect as to why Dr. Weinstein may not post something at RealClimate. The real reason is, he could post until he is blue in the face, but because his conclusions may fly in the face of the AGW mantra, Gavin and his buddies will never post anything he submits. RealClimate is a joke. Real scientists my a$$...

Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDAnonymous |21 Sep : 21:33
Guest


Reply to this
I agree with the person at san_quintin : 20 Aug 12:29. The Scientific Community is rife with egos, internal politics, special intrest groups,corruption, Governmental and Corporate entities. I marvel that they can get anything done, and when they do, are the results unassailable? What does their findings mean to the Common Man?
Sometimes I find this all a bit despairing.

Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDLisa |18 Oct : 05:49
Guest


Reply to this
Dr. Tim Ball discussed the CO2 issue very succinctly. He said that our current CO2 levels are actually LOWER than the level needed for OPTIMUM plant yield! (Think crop production.)

Now who would want to lower levels of CO2 if crops could benefit from MORE? Hmmm........let me see:

The same UN globalists who believe in POPULATION REDUCTION!!!

Everyone needs to wake up and understand that the motives for this regulation are EVIL, not just based on complete lies!

Re: Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDAnonymous |14 Dec : 19:48
Guest


Reply to this
The current climate change "debate" (actually, a fascistic "consensus" built upon fudged data, systematic quashing of dissent and fueled by billions in research funds) can be traced back two decades to when Mikhail Gorbachev, Maurice Strong and other globalists/socialists realized that the future of economic/political control of the global population could be harnessed through environmentalism. The focus went from "red" politics to "green." Gorby founded the Green Cross back in 1993 and he and other world planners, like Mr. Gore have managed to establish environmental alarmism as a de facto religion. Yes, this is the UN/globalists in action. This is the new world religion. The recent release of information showing the corruption of the scientist involved shows two things: 1) Many of these researchers are charlatans; and 2) Most people who have bought into the global warming hysteria will not have their views altered by facts. The proof that politics is at the core of this juggernaut is obvious: A primary objective in Copenhagen is a plan for redistribution of wealth (world socialism).

Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDlong_message_guy |18 Nov : 16:32
Guest


Reply to this
People are not responsible for Climate change we produce 1/10th of 1% of Greenhouse gasses.
Who is at fault It’s called the sun and earth....
We have gone through several ice ages and warming periods.
Al Gore is the greatest con artist and makes a fortune off of these carbon credits his companies sell. This Global warming lie he has created. You notice it’s no longer called Global warming but Global Climate change since it has been cooling over the last 20 years. But global warming ended 10 years ago at the peak of the last solar cycle. And it switched to global cooling 3 years ago when the sun shut down all major activity and went into the coolest mode ever scientifically documented. Up until 1998 the world was receiving a slightly above normal amount of power from the sun causing the planet to warm slightly. Since the sun went into standby mode 3 years ago all the planets are cooling because the sun is no longer putting out enough power to keep them as warm anymore. Where as before we received about 2% more power than we really needed and so warmed slightly we now are receiving between 5% and 10% less than we need to maintain a comfortable climate.

The question now concerning scientists is how rapidly will the planet cool off and just how cold could it get. Currently unless the sun warms up just a little we could reach a little ice age Dalton minimum in between 5 to 8 years or an even colder Maunder condition in about 10 to 12 years. But then the political left is not mentally bright enough to realize this as yet and so continue to preach AGW that has gained them political supremacy recently. But as the world cools towards a new ice age in the very near future soon even the dumbest will eventually realize that AGW was politics not fact and so dump the crooked Rockefeller propaganda machine that almost restored slavery with the liberals holding the keys as they traditionally have for thousands of years.
Also, Record cold and record snowfall across North America and the world this year. The melting ice we hear so much about from liberals, hippies and other kooks have almost completely refrozen to the original state. After record 11 foot snowfall last year in the northeast and New Year’s snow in Florida this year as part of a record cold year…..once again the global warming idiots are exposed in their hoax.
” According to the US National Climatic Data Center (NCDC), the average temperature of the global land surface in January 2008 was below the 20th century mean (-0.02°F/-0.01°C) for the first time since 1982. Temperatures were also colder than average across large swathes of central Asia, the Middle East, and the western US, western Alaska and south-eastern China.
The NCDC reported that the cold conditions were associated with ‘the largest January snow cover extent on record for the Eurasian continent and for the Northern Hemisphere’. In some parts of China and central Asia, snow fell for the first time in living memory, the NCDC noted.’
For the contiguous United States, the average temperature was 30.5°F (-0.83°C) for January, which was 0.3°F (0.2°C) below the 20th century mean and the 49th coolest January on record, based on preliminary data’.
Much of North America was also hit by the heaviest snowfall since the 1960s. Meanwhile, the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre found the January 2008 Northern Hemisphere sea ice extent, while below the 1979-2000 mean, were greater than the previous four years. And the January 2008 Southern Hemisphere sea ice extent was significantly above the 1979-2000 mean, ranking as the largest sea ice extent in January over the 30-year historical period.
Yes, Global Warming, as it is being promoted, is a complete joke, the whole idea that puny little man, can have any effect on Earth's biosphere is so patently absurd. It may be getting warmer, but one volcano can spew out 20 years of exhaust in one month, consider this: every single dirt clod on this planet is a by product of volcanic activity, all the mountains, also all the valleys, to the bottom of the sea, every bit of it was formed from boiling liquid rock, coming from inside the liquid core. If the greenhouse effect could destroy life on Earth, I think it would have done it by now... in fact, I'm sure it has many times. This planet has been hit from space by burning rock, too. Consider the lowest point on the Earth's surface, The Dead Sea. It didn't get there by water running downhill. Something had to smack it down from above. Mankind will never come even remotely close to the exhaust from that blast.

glad i got that off my chest

Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDBernhard |25 Nov : 23:05
Comments: 1

Registered: 25 Nov : 21:57

Reply to this
I am a now retired chemist, specialty trace analysis and have worked in this capacity for the department of environment. I was also in Greenland and at the "Next to the Pole" environmental research station. What I saw there, I can for a lack of a better term only describe as a joke. First off, none of the "analysts" have the foggiest notion how the CO2 analytical instrumentation actually functions or how to properly calibrate the equipment. The actual CO2 quantitative analysis is performed with Gas Chromathography. None of the "expert" personnel knew what detector was used at the end of the GLC column. "we are climatologists, not chemists" was a typical answer. It is noteworthy to mention that the detectors for CO2 are either DTC or ECD and not infrared. ...which is not astonishing, since CO2 does not absorb an appreciable amount of infrared radiation. I have always had an issue with the term "green house gas". Let us be clear, only gasses that absorb infrared qualify as such in the context of "global warming". Fact is, that CO2 only absorbs in 3 very weak and very narrow bands infrared light near the wave number 1700 cm ^-1 These are the C=O bond scissoring, C=O bond stretching and C=O torsional bond vibrations. Even the best infrared spectrophotometer like say a Perkin Elmer IR would not be able to detect the difference in IR absorption between .03 and 3 % CO2 !!! especially not if there is water vapor (humidity) present. Water vapor absorbs Infrared very strongly and over a wide part of the IR spectrum.....and yes that would make it a "green house gas", but CO2 certainly would not (analytically) qualify as such. So my first contention with this "green house gas" is, if it was such a contributor to heat (Infrared) absorption, why then do the "climatologists" use (very troublesome) GLC with TDC detectors and not simple Infrared Spectrophotometry to analyze for CO2 content. My second contention is, that the Ellesemere Island Research Station which is actually on Canadian Forces Base "Alert" is no more than 500 meters as the crow flies from the CFB Alert power plant which runs 4 12 cylinder CAT diesel engines 7-24's at full throttle, generating 30 tons CO2 per day. The environmental research station is also downwind from the CFB Alert runway and on some days several "Hercs" heavy airtransport come an go there. But the public is being fed "there are elevated CO2 levels detected near the North Pole" I might also add, that only a few Helicopter hours from the North Pole, there is "Fort Conger" with fossilized trees! So at latitudes > 76 degrees North there were once green forests. I do have pictures of the Environmental "research station", the nearby powerplant and the fossilized trees...as well as a few from Thule airforce base and some impressive ice caves on Grennland. Some of the ice in Greenland that will NEVER melt is so thick, that the depth was beyond the reach of powerful state of the art ground penetration radar. I was present when the readings were attempted. Yes we pollute, but to claim "global warming" is caused by man made CO2 emissions is beyond the ridiculous. I am a bit puzzled how one even measures "global average temperature". Given adiabatic cooling with altitude, I remember from my flying lessons that to be around 1 deg F per 1000 feet altitude,... isn't that as nonsensical like "calculating" the average cross section of a pyramid?!!!

Re: Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDDenny |26 Nov : 09:59
Comments: 42

Registered: 11 May : 12:38

Reply to this
Bernhard,

I appreciate your experience, knowledge and telling Us here at GWH.com a little about yourself. I would like to invite you to post some time with your pictures a little history of your experiences and other comments or knowledge pertaining to AGW..Realists need all the help we can get from Scientists like you.
Thank you for reflecting your views!

Best of Regards,
Denny

Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDJDuval |25 Dec : 04:35
Guest


Reply to this
I agree with Dr Weinstein.

The GW myth is based on false accounting, and can be destroyed by INDUCTIVE reasoning.


Specifically:

1. Water vapour is ALWAYS the RESULT of heat, never the cause.
2. The 'event' that is "evaporation", is a non-stop perpetual SINGLE event that knows no end. That is, it is one event only which lasts forever, and therefore by definition can have no secondary 'feedback' event feeding into it. It is a single piece of string of undefined length.

So we have heat which causes the conceptually smallest possible evaporation event (smallest with regard to quantity of water vapour produced AND smallest with regard to period of time over which such water vapour exists), and because such event cannot be separated from the (contiguous) event of the same magnitude with follows it (for both are conceptually infinitesimal and thus undefined in length), the event that is evaporation can only be considered as a single output resulting from a single input, with no feedback event permissible within the bounds of its definition.

It is only by virtue of such INDUCTIVE analysis (mathematical induction is vital with infinite, undefined events), that the GW idea can be put to bed. But because the method of induction is elusive to the understanding of most people (it being an abstract form of mathematics), the GW double-counting error persists.

There is only one input (heat), and one output (water vapour), with both input and output being undefined in length. There therefore can be no feedback without contradicting the constraints of causality.

This is the basic logic that Dr Weinstein is alluding to, and it is this logic and only this logic which can conclusively refute the double-counting upon which the GW myth is based.

Reply:Chapel_Hill_Real_Estate |27 Jan : 02:15
Guest


Reply to this
Yes, Global Warming, as it is being promoted, is a complete joke, the whole idea that puny little man, can have any effect on Earth's biosphere is so patently absurd. It may be getting warmer, but one volcano can spew out 20 years of exhaust in one month, consider this: every single dirt clod on this planet is a by product of volcanic activity, all the mountains, also all the valleys, to the bottom of the sea, every bit of it was formed from boiling liquid rock, coming from inside the liquid core. If the greenhouse effect could destroy life on Earth, I think it would have done it by now... in fact, I'm sure it has many times.

Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDDavid_C-H |19 Mar : 10:42
Guest


Reply to this
Positive feedback need not in any way lead to runaway conditions. In a simple example, a one degree change could lead to a feedback which increases the temperature by half a degree, which in turn increases temperature by a quarter degree, which in turn increases temperature by an eighth, and so on, leading to a feedback-caused doubling of the original effect, but no more. In fact, feedback leading to a runaway effect is in no way the most common result. The fact that Dr. Weinstein says "positive feedback would make an unstable system" as if it were a fact suggests that Dr. Weinsein really doesn't understand some fairly basic principles of feedback. If he doesn't understand this, he probably should stick to identifying rocks, or whatever his degree is in, and not strain his limited resources discussing complexity. He's kind of a fraud, if you ask me.

Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDDavid_C-H |19 Mar : 10:52
Guest


Reply to this
Looks like JDuval MAKES the SAME silly INDUCTIVE claim that Weinstein does, but makes it STRONGER with capital letters. Sadly, it is still not true. Anyway, natural systems are far more complex than you guys are giving them credit for being. There are some regions in state space where feedbacks are largely positive and some where feedbacks are largely negative. You can't just do a simple thought experiment and prove the scientists wrong, you have to actually know something about the system. Here's a question that I suppose none of you bothered to worry about because you think that you are so much smarter than so many of the world's best climate scientists: if positive feedback necessarily leads to runaway effects, and positive feedback is included in the world's climate models, then why don't these climate models show runaway effects? Hint: it is not because they are fudged, but because your understanding of feedbacks are overly simplistic.

I don't fault JDuval for this so much, because he does not claim to be a scientist, and so can be forgiven for making the error (though you'd think he'd have a little more humility about it, imagining that experts in the field might have thought of his point already and wondering what their response would be), but Weinstein claims to be an expert, and so has no such excuse. His error really is inexcusable.

Debunking the CO2 Feedback Myth - by Leonard Weinstein, ScDJDuval |01 Sep : 20:15
Guest


Reply to this
David_C-H makes an assertion that inductive reasoning is invalid. Unless he can prove it is invalid, it stands. All he has said is "I don't agree" and dressed it up in hubris.

Unless he can show that a result can be input to its own cause, his case in hopeless.

The fact remains that evaporation is one single event of undefined length (with infinite segmentation), and therefore can only be analysed inductively.

Therefore, we conclude by induction that, because the result (water vapour) cannot precede nor be input to the cause (heat) at any incremental stage (there being an infinite number of increments which sum to an infinitely-long SINGLE unit of evaporation), it is simply not possible that water vapour is contributing to the retention of heat on the earth. Nobody places a bowl of water in his living room to reduce his heating bill.

Water vapour is always and only the result of heat, never the cause to any degree whatsoever or at any stage whatsoever. Regardless of appearances and what one ‘feels’ to the contrary, that is the straight inductive fact and constraint on the matter. Micro-analysis (contrasting coastal temperatures/humidity with inland temperatures/humidity) is inadmissible with regard to the macro: we are talking about total input versus total output, not any shades in between.

And this is why, at the troposphere, we find that increases in temperature are not as great as those at the earth's surface. That is, water vapour does not trap heat at all, but is simply the result of heat, and therefore will lose heat naturally in accordance with the 2nd law of Thermodynamics.

Those such as David_C-H unfortunately need to apply the discipline of logic and inductive reasoning to their endeavours (essentially the philosophy of causality) so that they restrain themselves from jumping to conclusions they so much want to be true. Hopefully they are also not wasting their time building machines of perpetual motion.

There is no mechanism to provide for a 'feedback' loop in a one-way causative system of heat>water> evaporation. Any statement to the contrary, is simply question begging in its most literal form.

Having then dispensed with the ‘feedback’ myth relating to the allegedly greatest ‘feedback’ (‘Greenhouse’) gas (water vapour), then given that the supposed contribution of CO2 is, even according to the alarmists, far smaller than the supposed contribution of water vapour, we can dispense with the whole superstitious nonsense, along with its socialist agenda.

Submit comment
Subject
Username:
Comment:

Translate to: French German Italian Spanish Portuguese GTM_LAN_DUTCH Russian Chinese Arabic Korean English
Amazon.com


Global Warming Hoax Bookstore